Talk:Arachnus' room
Making a case Since Arachnus' room has been mentioned multiple times as a subject of potential deletion, I decided to present my case for keeping it. *"Arachnus' room" is not a poor, obtuse, confusing, or non-descriptive name for this article. *As with all other SR388 room pages I've created, it appears in both Return of Samus and Samus Returns, allowing the differences between the original and the remake to be fully documented without bloating other articles with this information. In my mind, that alone justifies the articles I've written. *It is a boss room. Between the "Boss Rooms" navbox and the easily-identified name, that makes it more likely to attract readers, easing your concerns about low traffic and esoteric names. *It has a unique room layout in Return of Samus, instead of being a copy/pasted item room like all the others. *In each game, there is something unique about its inhabitants, as discussed in the article's Trivia section. *It contains an item, which makes it useful for linking to on articles such as Phase 3/Items and Spring Ball. *Since the door remains locked after the battle, there is a minor puzzle to exit the room in Samus Returns. I have read over the RfC. Obviously, the first "real life" point doesn't apply. The second "scenery" point means I can't write articles about (for example) the high-tech structures in the background of Arachnus' room, but it doesn't forbid an article on the room itself. The fourth "low potential" point doesn't apply when the article already has significantly more than three sentences, all of which are directly relevant to Metroid. That brings us to the third point, the "restating info" point. Could all this be summed up on the articles for Arachnus and Area 2? Yes, they could... but I don't think it should. As I've said previously on Talk:Water-filled room (Area 5 lower level), this article has information that would be relevant on an article for Arachnus' room, but would be considered bloat if shoehorned onto other articles; for example, the room becoming occupied by Drivels in Samus Returns and how that's a unique feature. Only a few sentences of the article can be considered "redundant" with Arachnus itself; the rest is information about the room itself. It isn't really comparable to large lava pit arena (discussed in the RfC's "restating info" point), which is an unused room where all known information about it comes from literally just a single sentence; I agree that would be something that does not justify its own article under the Notability RfC and would just be better summed up on Thardus's page. I'd even argue that Arachnus' room no less relevant than the likes of Thardus's actual boss room, Quarantine Cave... which, for the sake of argument, we could just delete because all the information could be stated on Thardus and Phendrana Drifts' articles, but we really shouldn't. At the very least, I can say that Arachnus' room is currently a better article than Pirate Homeworld Leviathan Core. I carefully consider each of these "guidebook-named room" articles before writing them. It's why I haven't written articles for rooms such as "Moheek-filled room", "Wallfire hall", or "Omega's chamber". Therefore, I can certainly make a case-by-case argument for keeping each of the articles I've already written, and that's why I previously requested that we not delete any of them. However, I will comply with your own request, and so I won't be making more of these articles for the time being. --PeabodySam (talk) 14:40, February 16, 2019 (UTC) The problem is that rooms such as "Wallfire hall" are already being made. There's no borderline being used to say an "L" shaped corridor filled with Dessgeegas is not notable enough to carry itself as an article against the likes of Geothermal Power Plant. As I stated on that one's talk page, Prime series has scan data in almost every room (which it seems hasn't been done to Prime or Corruption rooms), but yes, I can agree to a case being made for consolidating rooms like Leviathan Core boss rooms into a single page. However, the Prime series also give all of their individual rooms an explicit name on a map, something that most of the the other series games don't do except for the aforementioned power plant room or regions like Kraid's Lair within Brinstar. Also, two single sentence trivia points is not "bloat". Neither is the mention of the unique layout in Return of Samus. There comes a point where we have to step in and curate what we're presenting. We may need a new RfC proposal to reaffirm what we define as notable enough to keep or delete. --''Madax the Shadow'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 19:29, February 16, 2019 (UTC) :As of this writing, Arachnus's Trivia section is nearly as long as its Appearances section. When so many Wikitroid articles already suffer from excessively long Trivia sections bloated with barely-relevant fluff, trying to forcibly cram in as much tangential information as possible on a single page... yes, I do think that this article's information would be "bloat" if shoehorned onto the Arachnus or Area 2 articles. Why should the Arachnus article talk about Drivels? Why should the Area 2 article go into detail about individual rooms? :It seems to me like the core of this issue is not the room articles themselves, but rather their names. The key difference between rooms like Arachnus' room and Quarantine Cave is that one has an official name in-game and the other is only described with generic-but-descriptive-terms by a guidebook. I doubt we would be having this discussion if Arachnus' room was given a more specific name, and yet "an Arachnus' room by any other name would have just as much info". After all, we have pages with conjectural titles, discussing subjects that are worth documenting but lack a proper name. A descriptive but generic term from an officially published guidebook, at least, is a small step above pure conjecture. :But what about the scan data, since that makes Prime rooms more special than the 2D Metroid rooms? Well, technically, we don't need articles for every Prime room to document and preserve scan data; we can just have a single article (like Pirate Data) listing all the game's scan data by room. :But, I think that would hurt Wikitroid more than it would help. Cutting up the info and spreading the pieces out on different articles makes it more difficult to find and read. Giving the Quarantine Cave its own page, complete with images and scan data, makes it easy to find all that info and let the readers know exactly which room this is. The same can be said for Arachnus' room. :With all that being said, I would be interested in a new RfC proposal specifically for rooms, just to clear this up. As I said before, the old Notability RfC doesn't exactly cover scenarios such as these, since the example given for an non-notable room (large lava pit arena) has no images, history, information, etc. beyond a single sentence. And again, I've already avoided writing "Wallfire hall" articles (where there isn't much notable to document) or any of the myriad of rooms given extremely generic non-descriptive names (like "corridor" or "chamber") in accordance with the Notability RfC. --PeabodySam (talk) 20:50, February 16, 2019 (UTC) Please take a look at the following rooms and how much unique scan data exists within them: Biostorage Station, Bioenergy Production, Metroid Processing. These are only three rooms, but the sheer amount of scan information in them can't hold a candle to the total amount obtained from every single room from the entire trilogy. Besides a small number objects that are reused within each game, usually destructibles or equipment-interaction mechanisms, each object you scan will be a new piece of information. The collective writings of all these unsaved scans will redefine the meaning of "wall of text". Many can't even be categorized properly if you were to attempt to organize them, existing only within the context of their location. Regardless, the "core" of the issue is that many of these new articles have a culmination of problems. Yes, the names are part of the issue, particularly because we've already gone over descriptive names before (of course it ended up being nothing more than a shouting match between people for irrelevant topics). There's also the fact that they don't provide any useful information. Why should we have an article dedicated entirely to describing a crumbling platform over a tank of water in detail before you fight Serris? Where's the limit? Our initial boundary was something already given an explicit title. Community-popular rooms, particularly among the speedrunners, are already a grey area that was accepted because it opened information and discussions on sequence breaking. These aren't just about rooms, however; Maintenance platform, Crane unit, and Glowing square are just but a few examples of articles that hold absolutely no information already present elsewhere. It's not a matter of them being stubs, there's nothing to provide any extra information about other than to simply fluff. --''Madax the Shadow'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 21:58, February 16, 2019 (UTC) :I think you may have taken my rhetorical question a little too seriously, but you see my point even if you don't realize it. Compiling all the scan data on a single page because we have no other place (i.e. room articles) to put it would be counterproductive. So, we have room articles to document that info, with the added benefit of being able to describe the room itself (inhabitants, items, connecting rooms, etc.) in the same article. A room like Arachnus' room may not have scan data or a unique name, but it has everything else that a room article should have. :It's apples and oranges to compare a room to a platform or other such object. There's a reason why the rooms have multiple sections and paragraphs while the objects only have one or two paragraphs. With a room, you have multiple topics to cover. The object is just the object. A platform found in a single room can easily be merged with the room's article, and I'm inclined to agree with you on that. But, since the room article will most likely have more information than the object article, that same argument doesn't exactly work with merging the room with another article; just because I'd merge Maintenance platform with Security Station (Elysia) doesn't mean I'd merge Security Station (Elysia) with SkyTown, Elysia. :I've already discussed how these room articles can have useful information and have a place in the overall wiki. I'm not talking about writing articles for every little object in the series; why bring that argument here? If it's a slippery slope you're worried about, then that's why we should start an RfC to establish some ground rules for this. The two of us going back and forth might not get us anywhere. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:32, February 16, 2019 (UTC) Most likely. I feel like the addition to the wt:deletion policy from the notability rfc and the discussions in the descriptive names rfc did not define well what they were intended to do. --''Madax the Shadow'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 22:45, February 16, 2019 (UTC) Pardon my intrusion, but what about the room in Metroid Fusion? Is this not also Arachnus's room? And if not, then what is the proper term/name for said room? If so, should this information also be added to this page?? DarkraiShadowXZ (talk) 20:04, October 14, 2019 (UTC) :Separate room, unrelated to this one. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 21:06, October 14, 2019 (UTC)